Who am I?

Just think about it. Who are you? Are you yourself now, years ago, or years later? When is "am"? It's a cool concept on a video I found. Enjoy.

 

So confusing omfg I am ship A

 

i dont understand a thing

 

If you take a lit candle and use the flame to light a 2nd candle, would it still be the same flame on the 2nd candle or is it a different flame?

 

Both, i win.

 

Neither it's a new flame every second since it burns away the old or something like that.

 

Correct!

 

Think about it like this: If the original ship were disassembled piece by piece, and transported to some other place, and then reassembled, it would be the same ship, yes? So then why does it matter what happens after a part has been taken?

Ship B is the original ship, having all the original pieces, and that makes it 'Theseus' Ship'.

But I would like to point out, from a practical perspective, making a ship out of worn out parts is stupid.

 

What if they made a different ship using all of the old parts.

 

Basically this comes down to the "Heap of Sand" paradox. That is, a grain of sand is not a heap of sand, and if you take a heap of sand, and remove a grain, it is still a heap of sand, but if you remove one grain many times, so that there is only one grain left, is it still a heap of sand?



@Supreme_Overlord This is an example of confidence issues correlating with intelligence. I think I understood this pretty easily; that is it didn't take much thinking. But on the other hand, I wouldn't know if I didn't understand it fully, would I? And at the same time, I could still be wrong, and just capable of making the best argument for my position, so that others will agree with me even though the position they originally held was actually correct (It's happened before).

Now I've thoroughly confused myself as to whether I'm correct or not, and I was actually hesitant to post anything because of the distinct possibility that I don't fully understand it, and just think I do, because other people responded like this:

about something I think is simple.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 13, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 13, 2016 ---

What I'm saying is that that's not a different ship, it's the original. The restored one is the new one.

 

This could be something other than a confidence issue involving intelligence; it could instead be an overly analytical desire to make sure that you're correct, which is based off of being intelligent in the first place. Either way, I see what you mean (and I usually always feel the same way about stuff like this).

Firstly, I think there's a difference between not understanding something at all and understanding something in the wrong way. To have made a claim on this, you obviously understand it in some way. If you didn't understand it at all, I do think that you'd be aware of this, but it is possible that you wouldn't have any idea if you understood it in the wrong way.

Secondly, I think that anybody that goes through this much analysis and overthought of their idea(s) on subjects like this is probably pretty intelligent, lol. While not everybody that's intelligent goes through this, it does seem to be a common occurrence for intelligent people to critically analyze and overthink their thoughts and opinions (not that unintelligent people can't overthink things too, but it's not usually as common or to the same degree). Again, like I said, this might not be a confidence issue; this could instead be an effect of an intelligence-driven desire to be 'intellectually perfect.' Although, if this is the case, perhaps at this point it could be safely said that this desire causes confidence issues. Perhaps it's not exactly confidence issues with intelligence, but confidence issues with living up to our own standards.

Thirdly, perhaps the fact that you feel like this is simple is a sign that you are (at least somewhat) confident with your ability to find an answer. I don't think that someone that lacks any confidence at all is going to be confident enough to say that the topic is simple, even if they do doubt themselves afterwards.

Anyway, I want to talk about video while I'm here as well.

I agree with you on saying that the ship that's rebuilt with all the original pieces is the original ship. I don't think you meant to say, "Ship B," though. Ship B is the one with all new pieces and Ship A is the original one from when it was used; the ship reconstructed with all the parts from Ship A wasn't given a letter, so let's just call it Ship C. I agree that Ship C is the original ship. As for Ship B, I don't agree with that arguments that the video offers; that is, I don't think that the gradual time that it took for the pieces to be replaced of Theseus's presence are relevant to whether or not the ship is still the same ship. I think that as soon as the number of replaced ship parts passes 50%, the ship is therefore closer to a new ship than it is to Theseus's ship.

I don't feel like this really works as a comparison to human identity though, because humans have consciousness. I think that even if all of our 'parts' were replaced, as long as we kept our consciousness, we'd still be the same person. Unlike a physical object (such as a ship) that derives its identity from its physical parts, I think that we derive our identity from our minds.

 

Whoops lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 14, 2016 ---

50% by mass, volume, or number?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 14, 2016 ---

True, but even that changes. I'm definitely not the same person I was 6 or 7 years ago. I make different choices, respond to things differently, and think about things differently.

 

Ship A can not be the same ship as it has no original parts from the first time it set sail. Ship B has every part from it, therefore they do not equal the same ship. Ship B is as close the original as it can get.

 

Ship A is the original ship and Ship B is the ship that has all new parts. The ship that's rebuilt with the old parts from Ship A (the original ship) isn't given a letter in the video.

It looks like adlovesdogs got it mixed up in the same way. The video did a pretty poor job of explaining the different ships.

I hadn't decided. While I think that it would be suitable enough to just arbitrarily choose one just so that we'd have some sort of system, I think that mass would probably make the most logical sense. Number would be the most practical though.

It's arguable that people don't truly change (in a psychological sense, that is) and that they just grow based on who they already are. For example, if you do something bad and end up feeling like you learned from your mistake, the reason that you felt like what you did was wrong could just be because you're already the type of person that would feel that way.

Regardless, whether the people that we are just grow or change entirely, we're still the same people in a way. As long as it's still 'us' that are sentient/conscious, we're still the same people, even if our minds have changed a bit. Although, how do we know for sure that we are still the same 'us' at that point? Damn, this is more complicated than the ship question was. We're way more complicated than ships are and we know way less about ourselves than we do about ships, so I guess that makes sense, lol.

 

I feel ship A and ship B are two different ships and here's why

Let's say ship A has 100 parts, and ship B has 100 identical parts. As 1 part of the ship A is replaced, the new ship is now 99% of what was ship A, and eventually as all 100 parts are replaced, ship B is 0% ship A


However, the reason this still applies to humans is this. The body takes around 7 years to completely recreate its body, and so every 7 years you are completely new. The reason this makes people so confused about whether or not it's the same you is because they compare their current body to the one they completely replaced 7 years ago. But since they retain memories, thoughts, emotions and ideas, they exist as the same person, regardless of how much their physical body has changed.

Take it this way:

Your body has been switched with someone else's, but your mind doesn't. So now you're in someone else's body existing with the same thoughts and memories as before. How long would it take for you to tell the other people that the current body you're in is you, and not the person who acquired yours? Not very. This shows that no matter what form you take, the identity of "you" is always where your mind is. And I mean that metaphorically, if somehow you could transfer all memories and neuron connections between brains.

Another way to think about it is the way the Egyptians did it, by splitting the identity of the human soul into 5 parts
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Egyptian_concept_of_the_soul

Thats just my 2 cents

 

Growing would be changing...
If you start one way, and end up another, it means you changed.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 17, 2016, Original Post Date: Aug 17, 2016 ---

Gosh darn it philosophers.

 

I am a legendary hero saving a powerful ship on an epic journey

 

Who am I? The bill please.
My camping hut has run out of gas.
Run out of gas!

Two double slices of chocolate cake.
I'm fed up with green beans.
So fed up!

Leto svet, leto leto svet. x4

(Translated from Estonian)

Kreisiraadio-Leto Svet (2008)

 

True, I should've explained/worded things better. What I meant is that it's possible that people are naturally a specific way and that they mentally grow and develop based on the way that they naturally/biologically are. For example, somebody might change their behavior to what they feel like is correct because they realized that it didn't match who they are. Sayings like, "Once a [blank], always a [blank]," would make sense if this is the case. I'm not necessarily claiming that this is true, but there's so much that we still don't know about the human mind, consciousness, etc., and it's definitely a possibility that people are naturally/biologically always a certain way.