Abortion

It is an actual point.
What happens when your girlfriend gets pregnant because you two got drunk and made some mistakes?
What happens when your sister gets drunk with her boyfriend?
you can't just brush something off "spare the dramatics" lol

 

What about to someone else's body?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 23, 2017 ---

Then you pay for your irresponsibility. You don't get to kill someone for your own convenience.

 

Yeah, the mass of cells is surely more than a hypothetical, obviously, but the child that it can become is still a hypothetical.

 

Its not an actual point, because my answer is the same. My/mysister/my girlfriends irresponsibility or misfortune doesn't give us the right to kill a "child" (For lack of a better word)

No, like your just wrong. if there is a child attached to your body then you don't get to kill it. Its demented that you would admit that its a child, and still think you can empirically decide to kill it. Planed parenthood is getting defunded and there is a conservative swing on the supreme court, I don't pay much attention to the abortion debate, but every day on the nyt I see opeds begging justice x y z to not vote for repealing roe v wade if presented the chance, which makes me think the pro-abortion camp is in pretty dire straits.

Right, so the mass of cells should have the right to become a child.

 

A mass of cells isn't deserving of any rights in and of itself and if we were to say that a potential child should have the right to exist, then we're back to the issue of hypothetical children all being potential children.

 

A hypothetical, as in an idea, can't have rights. A physical realization of that hypothetical can have rights. I really think it might be a difference of a subjective opinion between us.

 

Few questions. What is it to kill? Next: "What is a child"?
Also pro abortionists are doing very well. Timing wise, the fact that trump might have the chance to put in two people on the supreme court is troubling, but overall, more educated people tend to lean pro abortion and states are moving towards systems that allow for easier college access, so I would think the country is gravitating towards the pro abortion camp

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 23, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 23, 2017 ---

You should read up on the philosophical argument called FLO (Future like ours). You would find it interesting and it agrees with what you are saying.

 

Good lord lol what did I come back to? Alright! so,
1.) If my girlfriend (or whatever she is at the time of getting pregnant) got pregnant I would not allow an abortion. If my sister got pregnant and was crying and looked me dead in the eyes, I would not allow the abortion nor be okay with it. I do not like abortions and will never be okay with abortion (unless its from rape or the mother may die) idc who it is crying in front of me, im not going to be okay with an abortion and ill make sure that person knows it. You can call me what you want but I feel very strong about this topic.

2.)Stop with all the "hypothetical crap"
What if... what if... what if.... I could ask em all day, at the end of the day my answer is going to be: "I do not agree with abortion".

3.)Mistakes come with consequences, If I get drunk and "accidentally get in a car crash and kill someone" I have to pay the consequence.
Don't get drunk, dont have sex. If you do not want a baby, if you continue to have sex then you have a chance of getting pregnant. No sympathy for the ones who get pregnant. Suck it up and have the child. My Aunt spent thousandssssssssssss of dollars on trying to get pregnant and couldn't, I watched her cry when someone went and got an abortion because that person is killing something my Aunt could never have. You know what hurts most about abortion? Seeing mothers who cant get pregnant, why that worthless one is killing hers. Thats sad!

4.)Planned parenthood will be gone because it wont stop having abortions, it does much good for many people. When they stop getting government funding, they'll have 2 choices. Have plant parenthood go away or stop giving abortions.

 

Except the scenario you are describing and the one I did are still vastly different and cannot be compared in the way you're trying to do. A hetero couple that hasn't even had sex or made a child isn't preventing anything nor changing the status quo. I think my analogy does well to describe my personal opinions on the issue, I'm not sure where the signals are getting mixed.

 

To no surprise, little to no substance in a statement and the claim of self ignorance

A child is not a consequence. I don't punish people by giving them a child. How very cynical to use a person's very existence to punish another for having sex. Also, at what point is having sex a bad thing? We have sex for pleasure. Why can someone not have sex for pleasure? Drunk driving is a crime. Having consensual safe sex is not.

Even more worrying, what about this newborn child? You are going to force it to grow up in a situation the parents weren't prepared for. Your gift to that child is the wonders of having a shitty childhood in a home with parents that didn't want him and economically can't support him. That is creating a very unstable situation.

What is the benefit to this? We already have an overpopulation of foster kids that people won't adopt, why add to that problem?

Why are other people being punished with children because your aunt couldn't have a child? So my sister can't have an abortion because your aunt couldn't have a child. Makes sense.
Your aunt couldn't have a kid. That sucks. She can adopt a child. There is no connection on her inability to have a child and someone elses right to not have a child.

 

....So I can't not have kids because your aunt can't? How ridiculous is that?
You can't go on vacation either. You wanna know why? Cause I can't.

How about you start solving real issues such as adopting a child instead of putting another child in the system?
This meaning, maybe your aunt adopts, instead of refusing to let me have an abortion where they're gonna have a crappy life and/or be put up for adoption because look at me lmao
Give one kid a happy life and not let another kid have a sad life, how about that

 

Thank you muunkee, for taking my example and making it something it wasn't. Im saying, so many people abort their child and so many people want children but can't physically have them. If you get pregnant and truly want the baby, you would find a way to take care of him/her. Its because so many people do not want to put forth the effort, or give up their life style. So No, because my aunt can't have children that doesn't mean im saying you should be forced to have them. It was 1 example I used and you turned it around. As always.

 

I think that it's more of a disagreement than mixed signals. I see what you're saying, but the two different analogies that I brought up display two disagreements that I have with your claims:
1. Something being the natural result of something that has been started doesn't automatically mean that said result is the best result or that it needs to happen, which I was using the disease analogy to explain.
2. Tracing a chain of events back to its start and deciding what's a "natural" result of something is a really grey area, which I was using the analogy of extending the track to explain.

 

and if you truly do not want the baby and are not at a point at which you're financially or mentally table enough to care for him/her what are you saying

this is utterly ridiculous and obviously coming from someone who has never struggled to make ends meet. a potential mother who got pregnant, is living off of 3 jobs and a 7 day work week 9-5 on minimum wage cannot take care of a another human being if her lifestyle is paycheck to paycheck. also, keep in mind if they used birth control (meaning they don't want a child), not all birth control is 100% garenteed to work; condoms can break and the pill can fail if she takes it one hour late a single day.

 

You know I bet you're a worthless person because you eat food every day which is something that many people could never have.

The logic is completely faulty (though I don't necessarily disagree with your overall conclusion).

 

@Zoe89 The government will literally give you money, you best get mentally prepared and go on about it. If you absolutely do not want a child put it up for adoption!? I keep saying this.
Tip:
1.) If you take your pill an hour late, don't have sex that day?
2.) Do not have sex with a dead beat who isn't going to help take care of the child.
3.) Use better birth control.
4.) Don't have sex period if you 100% do not want a child.

You are right, I have never struggled in my life. I have always had a roof, medicine, food etc etc because my parents worked damn hard to get what they had. No one said it was easy, it certainly isn't impossible.

@metr0n0me Yes I'm totally worthless because I don't agree with abortion. I can honestly say I've never had a Christian call me worthless, or anyone really so that's nice.

 

If you have sex, you are taking the risk, you need to be responsible with the consequences. You screwing up (see what I did there) doesn't give you the right to kill a "child".

Kill: to cause the end of life to a human/animal/living thing. I've admitted the the mass of cells isn't a full child (hence the quotations) but the mass of cells will still grow into a child.

 

I think I should clarify--I wasn't necessarily calling you worthless, but pointing out the hole in your logic. You called the woman who got an abortion worthless because she did something to to "throw away" something your aunt could never have. So every time you throw away food, or flush the toilet, are you worthless because you're wasting food or water that someone else could never have?

 

I'm not saying the mother herself is a worthless human being. It's a worthless move to abort a child. You don't "want to parent" so you kill the child? Makes perfect sense right?