Abortion

Yes, because that is reasonable to expect.

 

...have you ever had sex? Sex is fun.
Also, teenagers are stupid.
Also, younger adults are stupid.
Also, middle aged adults are stupid.
Also, older adults are stupid.
Stupid people will do stupid things. Smart people will do stupid things. As well as the fact that sex is a pretty important component in romantic relationships regardless of age or steps taken to prevent pregnancy.
Youre going to be against abortion and say "well just dont do it!" As your alternative?

Other people driving drunk is a problem? You like driving? How about you just not drive. Not a single drunk driver will run into you. Problem solved!

It just doesn't work - you are not going to stop people from doing something that is otherwise harmless and fun. Why not allow measures to be taken to further keep them safe, rather than pressuring and yelling at them when they make a mistake? Its part of the learning process.

I think sex is almost a forbidden fruit type deal. You arent allowed. God forbid you have a little fun. (Hah I made a joke)

It just seems more logical that as this problem seems to occur more often, we take steps to help solve the problem rather than trying to completely cut off the activity in the first place.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2017 ---

Edit: I think what would also help more is less sheltering. I know I can be open with my dad about any problems regarding this subject and I know that if I can be open and say hey, I need this, or hey, I messed up, it can get taken care of. Which is part of why I have birth control pills myself.

I think in a more public-school-like situation and with a less open family, I wouldnt have gotten the same things I needed and especially in a more social area, crap happens. And if I dont have the tools to take care of it it becomes a problem. Regardless of which outcome is wanted.

 

So your saying you should be allowed to take an innocent life because you want to "have fun"? Oh yeah makes perfect sense. How about don't have "fun sex" until you can have "fun mommy and me time"?

 

Not everyone wants kids, sweetheart

Im gonna go again with pro birth not pro life.

If mommy cant affird to raise her kid, should she still keep it and give them a crap life or give them uo entirely which is more mentally and physically exhausting for both parties?

Or what if mommy just doesnt want to be mommy? Youve got a minimum of 18 years, hundreds of thousands of dollars, and not to mention countless times stepping on legos.
And thats for a normal kid. If the kid has a health issue it can get higher costs, more stress, all around no good.
Not everyone wants to deal with that even if they are financially stable enough to do so.

So now you have a parent that doesnt care. Feeds off of child support money. Gives kid the minimum and little support because she legally has to. Kid is not loved. With less abortions this happens more. What would you prefer - destroying something that doesnt even have a heartbeat, or letting a kid suffer for years cause mommy hates them and never wanted them?

 

Let me start off by saying that I do understand what you are saying @Muunkee and I can (to an extent) agree. I do understand the kid may not have the best home life if he is given up for adoption. I do understand that the kid may not get the best love or attention from his family. However, put yourself in the childs shoes. 18 years of a not so good home life and the rest of your life is up to you or death? It really is a touchy subject but I dont think any child given the choice would want to be aborted. I would rather have a crap life for 18 years and the rest of it as wonderful as I make or verse instant death before even getting a breath of fresh air.

Im sorry but this is a ridiculous statement. I'm gonna say it again, don't have sex if you don't want to be a mommy/daddy.

Do you think the childs heart starts beating when the mother gives birth to it? The childs heart starts beating within the first month or 2 of the pregnancy.

Then the child should be sent to a new home.

 

The person with the brain needed to cure cancer is already born. She's alive and well but couldn't afford college tuition so she's working a minimum wage retail job just to make ends meet.

 

I'm pretty sure whoever "may or may not" have the cure to cancer was pretty smart in school. she could have gotten a scholarship.

 

To be fair, at the stages adoption is currently allowed, the fetus could not survive on it's own. Is it fair to call it a life when the life it most represents at that stage is that of a parasite, feeding of the host body?

 

I'm saying the fetus becomes a human when it has a heart beat. If someone is pronounced dead when their heart stops beating isn't it only fair to pronounce them alive when it starts beating?

 

The earliest age a child could possibly live outside the mother's womb is 20-24 weeks, Which is like 4-6 months. It is difficult to find a doctor to perform an abortion (currently with legal means) if you are over 12 weeks pregnant, or about 2.5, almost 3 months. Most clinics would prefer to wait no longer than 5-6 weeks, which is almost 2 months. At 5-6 weeks old, the fetus is (usually) les than a centimeter long, quite possibly as small as an apple seed. The hands, feet, spine and heart are in the process of taking shape in order to develop, the heart yet either will not beat or very barely beat.
Please note also - the fetus at this point has absolutely no capacity to think, the brain has not developed enough. They are also unable to feel pain as the brain has not yet developed, and usually won't feel pain until at least about 25 weeks.
I will provide sources if you want me to look but I read enough of this crap when mom was pregnant I know the stuff


I have an analogy hypotheticalness (forgive if wording is awful) for you. I saw this somewhere so this is nor an original idea or anything, I dont remember where, but I will paraphrase it..

If you are on the medical table, dying, and i am the only possible donor that matches you, and I am the ONLY possible person that can save your life with a simple blood transfusion, the doctor still has to ask. If I say no, no one can do anything about that. no one can force me. the only way they are legally allowed to do the transfusion is if I say yes, do it. Regardless of how simple it is, one needle in my arm for 5 minutes, you're alive and well. But I said no. You are dead. Because I did not want to do that to myself.

Another one.
If you are dying on the medical table, dying, and I am ALREADY dead, I am once more the only person with the available organs to donate to you in order to save your life. If on my driver's license I am not listed as a donor, the doctor is not allowed to take an organ from my dead body. From the host that is no longer using it. Regardless of your health, I cannot be touched, unless I say yes. I did not say yes because it is not on my driver's license, my license says no, so you're dead. Because I said no. As a DEAD BODY, I said no.


You are saying you are not allowed to abort this baby. No woman should abort because 'what if" this baby is a lifesaver or something. You are trying to force a woman to give up her body for 9 months, hurting and exhausting herself in the process, usually nothing happens but in some cases the mother can actually be hurt by the pregnancy physically (by this I mean long term effects not just birthing and normal pregnancy pains etc), and on TOP of that have to deal with either caring for the child or figuring out how and where to send the child to another place or to adoption.
You can't give her the option to say she does not want this life, she does not want to commit herself to this long term of exhaustion and hormone changes and pain, you are not giving her the option to not have to deal with the having to try to care for a child when she didn't want to / doesn't have resources to do so...

You are not giving the woman the option to say No.

You are giving an alive, healthy woman less rights than a dead body.
Please think about this for awhile.

 

@Muunkee I trust your word at the very beginning. I knew most of that information so I know its factual. No need to provide any sources. I myself am an organ donor despite what many people told me. That being said I don't quite understand the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs. I feel like that is asking someone to be an organ donor or "not be a jerk" and give some blood (which btw if you don't give blood or get your blood taken a couple times a year, you should. Its really healthy to get rid of some blood and let your body produce new blood) anyway, it doesn't match up for the pregnancy.

When a woman gets pregnant they are now giving their body up to that child for 9 months, that child is depending on their mother for 9 months to keep them alive and healthy. This is why most mothers are closer to the child or more upset when giving it up for adoption or if they have a miscarriage. They nurtured that child inside of them for 9 months.

I will agree with you on a point you made though.

I will turn my face the other way and be fine with an abortion IF and ONLY IF the mother will be physically harmed long term or has the potential to die. These are the only exceptions to an abortion in my eyes.

Let me also say, I am not a woman. I do not know the feeling of being pregnant, never will. I do not know how it would be to have to carry a child if I were raped, never will. But don't you think you can suck it up for 9 months and if you must give it up for adoption do it?

There is a waiting list so long for parents wanting to have a baby and can't. You killed your child (fetus, whatever) because you "didn't want it or didn't want to sacrifice somethings for 9 months" why this other family is waiting for the opportunity to snatch one up and take it home.

I think the adoption process should be wayyyyyyyyy cheaper and easier.

Abortion should not be used as a form of birth control either.

 

What about the baby's health, if they were found to have some life threatening condition or even a condition that would make their lives very difficult, or a mental condition, would it be okay in your opinion to abort that child, in the case of A. Parent not wanting a suffering child B. Parent not being able to support a suffering child for whatever reason or C. Kid is gonna die anyways most likely. Why make them suffer?

Or what about a rape victim? In this case it is 100% not their fault they got pregnant in any way shape or form. Are you still stating that they need to keep that baby?

I can reword this.

In both situations, I have the option to save your life. Your life depends on whether or not I say no. I am free to say no, and I am not in any way pressured to say yes.
Keep in mind this is a 100% hypothetical and made up situation, I will be an organ donor. But.

If I am not a donor, I die, you are currently on the table dying, I am the only one with a life saving something that can make sure you live. If it says "no" on my license, it does not matter whether I am alive or dead, nothing can be taken from me to give to you.

With that being said, why can a woman not say "no" and have the ability to not put herself through those 9 months?

This is where I say a woman has less rights regarding this than a dead body. I'm being forced to give up myself for 9 months, but I cannot be forced to give up organs in a body I no longer even use because I am dead. This seems silly.

Lets say I make some mistakes. I get pregnant. I take my steps, I take my pils, this just happened because luck made it that way.

I do not want to be pregnant. That's one of the reasons I take these pills in the first place. Why am I required to go through the 9 months of pregnancy? Why are we keeping the baby alive? What is the true reason and logic behind forcing me to keep and carry this child until birth? One of your arguments was for, what if that baby's brain held the secret to curing some cancer?
Look at this: The Use Of Aborted Fetuses In Medical Research Has ‘Saved The Lives And Health Of Millions’
aborted fetuses can be used for research as well, and at even less cost to the related parties than the use of a person that was already born, alive or dead.
So if a fetus can be used for research, and people that are already alive can be used for research, what is your next argument? An innocent being being killed. However, the being cannot think or feel until long after most clinic's "cutoff" points for an abortion. By the time the fetus is that developed, you've probably already made that decision lol.

This is mostly due to our natural hormones. If you take a cat that just gave birth and you presented it with newborn puppies, the cat is going to take care of the puppies as if they were her kittens, lick them clean, attempt to feed them, because her natural instinct is that this is a small baby fuzzy thing and I must take care of it because I am a mother and it is my job, no questions asked.

We have that same hormone, but we also have a little more of the smarts to actually decide whether or not we will actually decide to take care of it or not. and it does make life more difficult for Mummy if she did not want the child in the first place. This can cause further problems in the future as maybe she decides to keep the kiddo after all when she really isnt able to.

9 months is a damn long time. And there is a whole lot of side effects that come along with being pregnant.
Including morning sickness, back pain to hell and back, cramps to hell and back, mood swings galore, cravings, the weight gain leading to an unpleasant looking baby belly (Stretch marks arent appealing to most people and sme women have trouble losing the baby weight), body parts grow, bones literally loosen and can separate, amoung many other things.
9 months is almost a year out of my life that is a giant pain, and I dont want it, and I can never get some of that time or things I can lose back. Some places will literally not employ pregnant women because they can be a giant pain in the ass because of hor homonal and mood swingy they are
and I'll enjoy never getting a date in that 9 months oh yay
I'll REAAAAALY love those medical bills! Even with insurance I'm probably down several thousand dollars : DDDDD Edit: That's not even including any midwifing, clinic visits before the birth, any meds you may take, or other costs related to pregnancy. that's just the birth.
and not to mention the possibility of surgery, recovery time with or without surgery, losing my job because I have to take so much time off due to various reasons especially at birthing time, and THEN on TOP of that trying to find an adoption center and people that want my child and people I dont hate and that can take time and effort I just dont have or want to deal with.


You're basing a lot of this on the life of the child. You have extremely little thought or sympathy towards the mother - who actually can make decisions and can think and can feel pain. I think the person who can actually feel the pain should have the option to avoid the pain.

 

You're right. It's better than she have no chance at all at pursuing her beautiful dreams what-so-ever. Kid's are such obstacles, aren't they?

Logic?? Pregnancy is a natural process. Go back to biology.

In essence, I could say that because old people tend to have a lower quality of life as they get older, we should eliminate them at ages sixty. Hey! no need for advancement in medicine or knowledge of fatal diseases. What an easy way out.

If there's a problem with the mother being able to sustain the kid, it isn't a matter of aborting it (the so-called "problem"), but a matter of having the financial means before bringing about a child; before running into the problems you so clearly listed. Keep in mind that a huge part about a kid being happy isn't just the financial costs of him/her running a normal life, but having the love that he or she so requisitely needs from both a mom and a dad.

With such a drastic lifestyle destined to happen no matter what, you'd think the so-called helpless mom would know better than the fend for herself for the kid's life.

Again. Doesn't happen if a child's parents have gone above and beyond only caring about the pleasure and "fun" of sex, and ensuring that a kid has everything needed to prevent a tragic childhood from happening. Again, a kid only gets in this situation if mommy and daddy are there for sex and only sex.

 

umm, if you are referring to a baby with down syndrome (which I hope your not) then this is just an awful comment. Children with learn disabilities, down syndrome or anything along those lines are still human beings and deserve to be treated as such. Most kids wth down syndrome are nicer and cuter then any other child, I mean. am I right or am I right?

Adoption?

Make yourself an organ donor before you die? maybe? also, what are you giving up while pregnant? No heavy lifting? no smoking or drinking alcoholic beverages? HALF THE WORLD GETS PREGNANT look at other countries where they get pregnant without ANY medical help, Americans are so spoiled we cry for having natural birth.

Mistakes come with consequences.

So why dont we kill some more fetus' for research? shall we? lol be for real

Maybe human mommies and daddies should learn a thing or 2 from a cat?

Oh boo hoo im gonna have stretch marks or be fat because im pregnant. SERIOUSLY?? having stretch marks due to pregnancy isn't a bad thing and it certainly doesn't make you ugly. Its natural.

Well 1st of all, its illegal to fire someone for being pregnant. 2nd, the chances of your bones separating and you just turning into a pretzel because you gave birth like every other mother in the world did are slim to none.

WHAT? What person gets pregnant and then tries to get a date? wtf, lol a whore maybe? This is absolutely the most ridiculous statement.

Yeah you typically have to pay a bill when you go to the hospital.... kinda how the doctors and nurses get paid.

You do understand that most parents get like 3 months off of work? right?

Yes, I should totally feel bad for (in your examples) a mother who has to "give up her life" for 9 months (aka smoking and drinking), partying, getting a date or gaining weight and getting stretch marks. Vs. an innocent child that didn't ask for such a crappy mom in the 1st place. Your right, if rather die then be apart of that mothers family.

 

What if the kid isn't wanted?
What if dad skips out?
What if both happens and kid ends up with mom that doesn't give a damn about the kid, and then the possibility of no father at all

I'm not sure what you mean by this, please rephrase

Have you ever had sex? Sex is fun.
Not everyone has sex in order to have a child. Most animals have sex in order to have a child with no other goal in mind other than male and female, do the deed, babies happen. Humans are a lot different, have a lot more capacity to choose whether or not this is what they want, annnd for some people its just that simple - Yes I do, or no I do not want kids. And you can take many steps to prevent getting the prego, but sometimes that what 0.5% of a birth control pill not working manages to pull through.

I do hope you realize that there are many many other physical and mental disabilities.... how the hell did you jump to downs I'll never know but L O L, like seriously, not even a SINGLE bit of my statement would even HINT at downs
Downs isnt even barely an issue compared to what I was thinking
I was more thinking severe organ defects, The mental capacity of a potato

Don't jump to stupid conclusions and throw words in my mouth, pretty please
@KlutchDecals help

Why is someone who was forced to have sex also forced to have a kid? Why cant they say no?

So you are saying if you have a chance to undo any stupidity you have done, you would never ever take that chance? Fix your problems? Not once ever. Every mistake ever is 100% Captain goes down with the ship. I see. Okay.

You have COMPLETELY missed my points here

This is why I specifically said, this is HYPOTHETICAL
h y p o t h e t i c al
^ That means not real. A made up situation. A situation that does not exist, usually used to help explain something or to provide an example. a defintion: "Denoting or containing a proposition of the logical form 'If P, then Q." See below:

If I have the option to save a life, and say no, no one can force me to
If I have the option to create a life, and I say no, no one should be able to force me to.

Additionally, its not about giving up my daily habits, it is about changing and surrendering part of my life to this being. I have to care for this. If I keep it in my stomach I have to pay attention to how and what it needs and why and checkups and all the mess. I've been dragged around this with both of my brothers - its a pain in the ass when the child is wanted. When it's not, how is that going to affect the child? It will. A lot.

some people are like this, some are not.
I'm not sure why we all need to behave the same way.

Once more, you have missed my point. you also glazed over the potential benefits. Abortions are going to happen anyways. Why don't we make it safe, and make a use out of the opportunity?

1 doesnt mean it doesnt happen cause lol
2 Bones do widen and loosen as a natural part of the process

Sigh.... yknow some people don't always stay with daddy and some daddies dont always stay with mummy and some of those single people want to actually find a partner?
So you're saying if you try to date while pregnant you're whore. Jesus christ.

This is a serious topic for many women. Many women hate it and do see it as a legit issue. Just because its natural doesn't mean it's always good or wanted.

It seems silly to be forced to spend thousands of dollars on medical bills when I can spend less than 1K on a simple procedure that leads to myself having a way happier life

California is the only US state to offer paid parental leave, and it's only partial pay, for 6 weeks. In the rest of the US paid weeks are not offered, and leave is provided for 12 weeks.
So while what you are saying is true, I fail to understand how you think I am supposed to keep up with my several thousand medical bill along with normal expenses when I have unpaid time off work.

Not all women are trashy.

Plus if you were aborted before 20 weeks you would not know or feel it. you simply would, to you, not ever exist. The brain is not intact enough until ~24 weeks to feel pain, interesting how that also links up to the minimum time a fetus can survive outside the womb.

I am glad we agree on something.


I would like to present this video, which links to what I've said before about how making abortions illegal does not stop abortions, it stops SAFE abortions.

 

As long as the baby is in the body still it's fin.

 

What? No that's not what I'm saying at all. I just don't think someone can use the logic of "an aborted child might be the brain we need" while also holding the stance of "I'm completely against affordable higher education". Nowhere on this thread have I stated any position on abortion.

 

Abortion is legal in Japan and we don't have a problem with it

 

I feel like abortion should be up to the couple that passed on their DNA. It doesn't seem fair to the child to be born to parents that didn't want the child if someone didn't let them try to abort first.